Discussing a mechanic's recommendations: four questions and a decision

Put every item on a shop's list through four questions, decide yes now, not now with a recheck point, no, or a second opinion, and write the answer down so the next visit starts from it.

How a list of recommendations arrives Understand

Most lists arrive while the shop has the car for something else. With the car in the bay for an oil change or a repair, a technician looks over a set of parts and grades each one. That is a multi-point inspection (MPI): a checklist inspection of the brakes, tires, fluids, filters, belts, lights and other items the shop chooses to look at. The ASE Education Foundation, which accredits technician training programs, lists performing a multi-point inspection and completing an inspection report among the foundational tasks every accredited program teaches (ASE Education Foundation, Automobile Program Standards (PDF)). Chevrolet says its brakes are inspected at every multi-point inspection (Chevrolet, About the brake system). Convention

When the results are recorded in software, with photos or short videos, and sent to your phone or email, the shop calls it a digital vehicle inspection (DVI). A DVI usually arrives as a link with each item, its grade, a photo for some items and a price, and often a button to approve. The person who sends it is the service advisor (also called a service consultant or service writer): the person at the desk who writes up your concern, presents the technician's findings and the estimate, and takes your approval. The technician is the person who inspects and works on the car. The visit's paperwork is the repair order (RO): the shop's record of your concern, the work you authorized and, at the end, what was done.

Green, yellow and red are each shop's convention

Most inspection reports grade each item green, yellow or red. The colors look like a standard. They are not one. Each software vendor defines them, and the shop can change them:

• Autoflow's training page defines yellow as "Requires Future Attention" and red as "Requires Urgent Attention", and says an administrator can rename the statuses (Autoflow, How do I use the Digital Vehicle Inspection?). Autoflow's own FAQ describes the same colors as good, okay and bad.
• Tekmetric describes yellow as something that might need attention down the line and red as the need for immediate action (Tekmetric, DVI software features).
• ARI, another vendor, tells shops to write their own definitions, gives examples, and says they are "not universal legal or safety definitions" (ARI, Digital Vehicle Inspection Checklist).

So a color tells you how urgent this shop thinks the item is, under this shop's definition. It does not tell you what was measured or what the carmaker's limit is. Convention A brake pad example shows the gap. Art's Automotive, a Berkeley shop, writes that a common pad gauge turns red at 3 mm and stays yellow up to 6 mm, while the company that made the car sets the minimum pad thickness, which for many cars is 1 mm (Art's Automotive, Brake Inspection). Two shops can mark the same 3 mm pad yellow and red, and both can be following their own scale. The measurement and the maker's minimum are what you compare; the color is the shop's summary. Product-specific

The colors also do commercial work. Solera, which sells inspection software to dealers, markets photo-backed, color-coded reports with one-tap approvals as a way "to increase upsells" (Solera, Service Suite: Inspection). Autoflow's help page notes that items not authorized at one visit appear again at the next. Neither fact says a recommendation is wrong. Both say the report is built to get a yes, which is a reason to ask your own questions before you tap one.

What a good service desk does

ASE, the National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence, certifies service advisors with its C1 test, and its free study guide lists the tasks the test covers (ASE, Automobile Service Consultant (C1) Study Guide (PDF)). Read the list from the other side of the counter and it says what you can reasonably ask for. Convention

The guide also shows how advisors are taught to rank a list. Its sixth sample question gives a nine-line inspection and keys the answer with worn front brakes first, ahead of maintenance items that are due. That is an exam answer about ordering a list, safety first, and not a threshold for any part. Advisors are also trained on sales numbers: one paid advisor course lists hours per repair order (HPRO), the labor hours billed on each visit's repair order, among the figures an advisor tracks (JC Training, Service Advisor Excellence course page, a paid course listed here as a reference).

Most visits go well. California's Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) says most consumers have a positive experience with maintenance and repairs (BAR, Maintenance and repairs). Trust is lower than that suggests: in AAA's survey of December 2016, the most recent we found, 63 percent of drivers said they do not trust repair shops in general, and 64 percent said they have one shop they do trust (AAA, Most U.S. Drivers Leery of Auto Repair Shops; the 63 percent is from its survey fact sheet (PDF)). No source we found measures what share of shops overcharge. The four questions below work the same way with a shop you trust and with one you are trying for the first time.

The four questions This manual's convention

We put every item on a list through the same four questions. They are this manual's method, built on the tasks ASE tests service consultants on and on BAR's consumer guide, which tells drivers not to feel pressured, to ask why a service is needed and whether it affects the warranty, and to wait or get a second opinion until they can look into it (BAR, A Consumer's Guide to Auto Repair (PDF)). Each answer goes in its own column of the Recommendations sheet.

Ask them in order. The first question often answers the second: a pad measured at 3 mm is a wear finding, not a schedule item. The second often answers the third: an item due by the schedule has its own interval to wait against. You can ask all four in one text: "For each item, can you send what you measured or a photo, the maker's limit, and the price on its own line?"

1. What did you see?

The answer you want is evidence a second person could check: a number with its unit, a test result, a photo, a video or the part in hand. Common forms:

• Brake pads and rotors: pad thickness in millimeters for each axle, the maker's minimum, and the rotor's condition. Art's Automotive's advice is to ask for the pad measurement and the manufacturer's minimum specification. Brakes, battery, wipers and lights lists the signs you can notice yourself.
• Tires: tread depth in 32nds of an inch at the shallowest point, and the tire's age from its DOT code (Tires; the Tire age calculator).
• Fluids: whether a test was run and what it read, or only a look. A fluid that looks dark is a description. Some schedules use tests: Tesla's tests brake fluid every 4 years and replaces it as needed (Tesla, Vehicle Maintenance), and ASE's sample inspection lists coolant as "tested poor". Ask which it was.
• Filters, belts, hoses, wipers: a photo or the part itself. You can ask to see an air filter at the counter.
• Leaks: where, what fluid, and how much: a damp film or a drip. Sounds, smells, leaks and feel covers how leaks are described.

The technician is the one who sees; the advisor relays. ASE's first sample question makes the point: for a brake noise, the keyed answer is that a technician will need to evaluate the car, not a price quoted over the phone. If the answer is "it's due", that is the second question's answer, and you check it against your schedule. If the answer is "we recommend it at this mileage", ask whose recommendation that is: the carmaker's or the shop's. The Orange County District Attorney's 2007 settlement with a lube chain required, among its terms, giving customers the manufacturer's recommendation for their model and mileage; the DA's advice to drivers was to ask for it (Orange County DA, EZ Lube settlement). The chain admitted no wrongdoing.

2. Is it in my schedule?

Your maintenance schedule is the yardstick: the maker's own list of items and intervals for your car, in miles and months, normal or severe as the maker defines them. Each recommendation is in it and due, in it but earlier than the schedule, or not in it. Your maintenance schedule shows how to find the schedule and copy it onto the Maintenance schedule sheet.

To check an item, find it on your schedule sheet, then find when it was last done on your Service log or invoices. BAR's guide tells drivers to follow the maker's schedule, including the fluid and flush services in it, and to keep records of every service. The three answers lead to different next questions:

Two cautions. A schedule item can be due by time even with low miles: several makers set brake fluid by years, and Oil, fluids and filters gives their examples. And some cars have an oil life monitor, which sets the oil interval itself (oil life monitors). Your manual says which applies. Product-specific

Not in the schedule

An item that is not in your schedule can still be right. Schedules list wear parts as inspections, not replacements, because wear depends on driving. Chevrolet says there are no specific mileage intervals for brake service. A worn pad, a leaking hose or a failed part appears on no schedule; the finding is the reason, and the first question is the one that matters. Physical principle

The harder case is a service tied to no finding: a flush, a cleaning, a treatment or a package sold at a mileage. Ask the first question first: "What did you find that this service addresses?" Then ask BAR's question: why is the service needed, and will it affect my warranty? Consumer Reports, answering a reader offered a fuel service at 40,000 miles in 2013, said that if the car is running fine it does not need such a service, especially because the maker's schedule does not call for it (Consumer Reports, Do you need a fuel service at the dealer?). That is one publication's view of one service. It does not cover a service a technician recommends for a diagnosed problem. Convention The Services decoded page lists common add-on services and where each appears, or does not, in the schedules we read, and Oil, fluids and filters shows how to search a schedule for a flush. The dated audits, investigations and settlements about flush sales are under Go deeper.

3. What happens if I wait, and until when?

This question turns "not now" into a plan. The answer has two parts: what changes as time or miles pass, and when it should be looked at again. That second part is the recheck point: the miles or the date at which an item is measured or decided again. This manual's convention

• For a wear item, ask how fast it is wearing and what measurement would move it to "yes". A pad measured now and again at the next oil change gives you a wear rate in millimeters per thousand miles, which neither measurement gives alone.
• For a schedule item, the schedule gives the point: "due at 100,000 miles" is its own recheck point.
• For a symptom, ask what to watch for, and what would mean stop driving. Sounds, smells, leaks and feel lists the signs that mean stop driving, and Warning lights and codes covers the lights.

Convert miles to months with your yearly miles: at 11,000 miles a year, 1,000 miles is about five weeks, and 7,500 miles is about eight months. The Next service calculator does the same arithmetic for schedule items. Write the recheck point on the Recommendations sheet and on the Maintenance schedule sheet, so it is in front of you when the car next goes in.

If the answer is that waiting affects stopping or steering, take that item first. ASE's sample question puts worn front brakes at the top of its list, and the Limits box below says what to do with a safety item.

4. What exactly will it cost?

The answer is a line on a written estimate, not a total read over the phone. Each item should have its own line: the parts and their type (new from the carmaker, new from another maker, used, or rebuilt), the labor hours and the rate, any fees, and the warranty on parts and labor. Ask for items priced separately. A package or bundle price hides which part of the total belongs to which item, and makes "yes to one, no to another" hard to say. AAA advises an estimate that says the amount will not be exceeded by a stated dollar figure or percentage without your approval (AAA, Insist On A Written Repair Estimate).

Reading a repair estimate reads each line and checks the arithmetic; the Estimate check does the sums, and the Estimates sheet holds two quotes side by side. Whether a shop may charge more than its estimate, and by how much, is set by state law and varies; that chapter's state rules give labelled examples. Ask the authority

The decision for each item, and how to say it

Each item gets one of four decisions. The set is this manual's convention: it gives every item an answer, including the items you are not doing today. This manual's convention

A second opinion means another shop looks at the same item with the same facts. The FTC notes that shops that only diagnose may be able to give an objective opinion (FTC, Auto Repair Basics), and AAA's 2017 release on repair bills also tells drivers to consider a second opinion (AAA, One-in-Three U.S. Drivers Cannot Pay for an Unexpected Car Repair Bill). Choosing a shop and handling problems covers how to arrange one and what to give the second shop.

How to say it

Short, plain sentences work best, in a text or on the phone. Some shops' systems take approval with a button; a written reply that names the items and the total says the same thing more exactly. Scripts you can adapt:

• Asking the questions: "Before I decide, can you send the measurement or a photo for each item, the maker's limit, and each item priced on its own line?"
• Yes now: "Please go ahead with the brake fluid exchange, the engine air filter and the cabin filter, $260 before tax, as on your estimate. Nothing else for now. Please call me before any other work or any charge over that."
• Not now, recheck: "Not today on the front pads. Please measure them again at my next oil change and write the measurement on the invoice."
• No: "No thank you on the fuel injection service. Please note it as declined."
• Second opinion: "I'd like a second quote on the tires before I decide. Can you send the size, brand and price in writing?"

You do not owe a reason for a no, and a decision made after the four questions is not a refusal of the shop's advice; it is an answer to it. ASE's fourth sample question keys the advisor's response to an objection as asking more questions to find its cause, so expect a follow-up question and answer it plainly. BAR's guide puts it briefly: "Don't feel pressured to agree to any service." It also says not to sign a blank work order. When you approve by phone, write down the date, the time, the name of the person and the amount; California's guide says the invoice should record a phone approval the same way, and other states' rules differ (state rules).

Declined and deferred work

A declined item is one you said no to. A deferred item is one you put off to a recheck point. Both belong on the record, on the shop's side and on yours. ASE's C1 task list includes documenting recommended services performed or declined, and explaining the invoice's declined or deferred work to the customer. Ask for the declined items on the invoice; the Questions for the shop sheet carries that question under "Before you pay".

On your side, the Recommendations sheet keeps the item, what was seen, the mark, the decision and the recheck point. That record does three things:

• It shows the trend. A pad at 3 mm in October and 2.5 mm in May says something neither number says alone, and the next shop can read both.
• It answers the next list. Shop software can bring unapproved items back at the next visit; Autoflow's help page says its system does. Your sheet shows what you decided last time and why, so you are deciding again from facts, not from the color.
• It belongs in the car file. Declined work is part of the car's history for warranty questions and for a later owner. Your service records shows where it goes.

Put each recheck point on the Maintenance schedule sheet as well, beside the schedule's own items, so that the next oil change brings it up.

See it: Priya's list and Sam's package See it

• BAR, A Consumer's Guide to Auto Repair (PDF): describing a problem, asking why a service is needed, second opinions and paperwork.
• ASE, C1 Study Guide (PDF): the advisor's task list and the sample questions on ranking and objections.
• ARI, Digital Vehicle Inspection Checklist: a vendor's own warning that colors need written definitions.
• Art's Automotive, Brake Inspection: why a pad gauge's colors differ from the maker's minimum.

Practice: one list, four questions, one decision each Practice

Minimum: one list (your own, or Priya's from the table above) with all four questions answered and a decision for every item on the Recommendations sheet, and each recheck point written with miles or a date. Time: about 30 to 45 minutes, plus a call or text to the shop. Materials: the shop's list and estimate in writing; your Maintenance schedule sheet, or the schedule pages of your owner's manual; your Service log or invoices; the Recommendations sheet (or paper); a phone.

1. Get it in writing. If the list came by phone, ask for it by text or email with a line per item. If it came as a DVI link, save or print it.
2. Enter each item. One row per item on the Recommendations sheet: date, odometer, shop, item, the shop's mark.
3. Ask the first and fourth questions together. One message: the measurement or photo for each item, the maker's limit, and a price line for each. Write the answers in "What they saw", "Maker's limit" and "Estimate amount".
4. Check the schedule yourself. For each item, find it on your schedule and find when it was last done. Choose the "In my schedule" answer.
5. Ask the third question for anything you might put off. Write the recheck point in miles or a date.
6. Decide and reply. One decision per row. Approve the yes items in writing by name and total, and ask for a call before anything else.
7. Carry the dates forward. Put each recheck point on the Maintenance schedule sheet.

Your car Your car

Check your work Check your work

Criteria

• Does every item on the list have a row, with the shop's mark and what was actually seen (a number, a photo, a test or "no finding given")?
• Does each row say whether the item is in your schedule, and on what basis (the schedule line and when it was last done)?
• Does every "not now" have a recheck point in miles or a date, and is it on the Maintenance schedule sheet?
• Is every "yes now" priced on its own line, and did you approve those items by name and total, in writing?
• Did any safety item get a direct answer from the technician about driving on it, written down?
• Are the declined items noted, and will they be on the invoice?

Worked example

Priya's sheet has seven rows. Brake fluid, air filter and cabin filter read "yes now", $260 before tax, approved by text. Front pads read "not now, recheck at the next oil change", with 3 mm and the maker's minimum written in and her note of the technician's answer about driving on them. Coolant reads "not now, 100,000 miles". The fuel injection service reads "no: not in my schedule, no finding". The tires read "second quote; replace within two months", with two quotes on the Estimates sheet. It passes: every row has an answer and a decision, and each recheck point has miles or a date. It does not say the pads or the tires are fine; it says when they are looked at again and by whom.

Common mistakes

• Reading the color as the answer. Red and yellow are this shop's scale. Ask what was measured and what the maker's limit is.
• Approving the total. A tap on "approve all" or a yes to a phone total approves every line. Name the items.
• Treating "not in the schedule" as "not needed". A worn part is on no schedule. The first question decides those items.
• "Not now" with no date. Without a recheck point, a deferred item is forgotten until the next list brings it back in red.
• Deciding a safety item by price alone. A brake, steering or tire item gets checked before you drive on it, by this shop or another.
• Losing the record. The sheet and the invoice are what make the next visit faster.

What is still unresolved

Whether any single item is needed is settled by the technician's finding and the maker's limit, and, where you doubt it, by a second shop: Choosing a shop and handling problems covers that. What each line costs and what you authorized are read in Reading a repair estimate, and whether a shop may charge more than its estimate depends on your state. Your schedule itself, and whether you are on the normal or severe one, comes from Your maintenance schedule. A repair that went wrong after you approved it is in Choosing a shop and handling problems.

Knowledge check and scenario

Checklist

• Every item on the list has an answer to the four questions and a decision on the Recommendations sheet, with recheck points dated.
• I have the list and the estimate in writing, with each item on its own line.
• I approved only the yes items, by name and total, in writing.
• Each recheck point is on the Maintenance schedule sheet, and any safety item has the technician's answer about driving on it written down.
• I asked for the declined items to be written on the invoice.
• I asked my shop what its yellow and red mean and wrote it down. (Go deeper; optional)